Actually, I think this is an interesting issue. Consider: most people only do any light hobby for mabye 4 to 6 hours during any give week. If you’re playing a long-term game, then generally you’re going to have to spend all of your hobby-time on it.

One of the reasons I’m looking hard at both Agora and Art, Grace and Guts is that I think they’re both extremely short play-cycles, but with a potentially very large number of said cycles. So instead of getting together once a week to game, and then spending all that time playing (say) Full Light, Full Steam and doing this for a year, maybe we’ll get together to game, play Agora for an hour or two, then maybe some Settlers of Catan, and maybe watch a movie or something.

The problem seems to be one of oppurtunity cost. If you can provide a way to play a long-form game without giving up playing other things, well I think that would be sweet.

Thomas

On the other hand, I’m not doing that kind of play (as evidenced by my inability to playtest it that way), so the very good question is why I’m designing games for it. Agora, by contrast, is a zippy little thing that can go in one session, or extend across as many as you like.

There’s definitely some truth to that. It’s easier and more convenient to play games with low comittment. This is true of most activities in our busy world.

But… There are people who (say) play poker once a month, or play sports regularly every couple of weeks. People can and do do things on regular schedules.

Combine that with the fact that long-term games allow for much richer narratives based on accumulating context and play-history, and there’s a strong incentive, at least amoung some people, to make roleplaying one of those recurring activities.

You’re right, it’s not for everyone. Not all groups can feasibly meet that often, and not all groups are composed of players who want that long-form play. But for those of us (like me and Fred) who do want that, well, this is one of the big reasons I think it’s not there: they’re hard to make.

Thomas

Right on to all points. Even around the Forge where there’s a lot of talk, theres this huge pressure to get your game done in time for GenCon so you can get in on the booth there.

But, as you say, the games that really shine are the ones that are worked over and over, and the ones that aren’t on any time-schedule. Tony put Capes out in January of last year, Josh BR is talking about releasing Full Light, Full Steam at the end of this year.

That “it’s done when it’s done” attitude is one of the things that has put companies on top of the pile in other fields, like Blizzard Entertainment in computer gaming. I’d love to see more of that in our own field.

Thomas

I didn’t see it mentionned anywhere, but I think it’s so obvious it deserves to be said and then forgotten again.

There are lots of short-form Forge games because that’s what people get to organize and play most.
For example, with my group, I couldn’t dream of playing regularly enough to play a 50 session game. We even have big difficulties playing 5 sessions in a sensible time span.

So “one-shots” are the games I’m drawn to most.

I gather that lots of people following the Forge are in a similar situation.

There is a reason that games like Burning Wheel, Dogs, and the other top 10% shine — and it isn’t because the designers are geniuses of a calibur beyond that of normal men. It’s because they’re willing to take the time to do it right and make sure everything works, and works exactly, before going to print.

Plus, I think there is something to be taken from Jared’s recent words (and Green Ronin’s recent models) about using electronic publication, as well as or combined with the way many Forge games have completly open playtests (Breaking the Ice, for example, was avaliable for free for ages before the final version went to print) as ways of both extending playtest, proofing quality and concept, and getting the community to be part of your production rather than just a consumer of it.

The more I hear about it, the more I think I need to pick up BW… Burning Empires sounds nifty.

For now, though, I have enough on my plate.